Compare/Contrast #4: Author's Message CITR

The moral you brought up about not worrying about age and living in the moment was a good one.  It is definitely an important part of the story.  I think it contradicts the message about love.  Personally, I think it was foolish for Florentino to waste his life waiting for Fermina.  He didn't get to enjoy every moment every moment of his life and instead became afraid of growing old without her.  He only lived in the hope he would one day be reunited with her.  I'm not sure if Marquez was trying to portray Florentino's actions as foolish or admirable.

Now to discuss the message I thought Salinger was trying to send to the reader.
Throughout the book, the reader witnessed the negative effects of Holden's lack of motivation and his attempts to be someone he wasn't: an adult.  In addition, I saw the depression and loneliness that resulted from Holden's lack of interest in school, and the way he alienated the people around him.  His judgmental behavior did nothing but cause him pain and make him even more insecure because he only had one person who he could trust:  Phoebe.  Because all we see from Holden's actions are negative results, agree with you:  I think Salinger was trying to tell the reader to not judge people.  There is so much more to people than what they appear.  Almost everyone Holden met was a "phony."  It is highly unlikely that they were truly no deeper.  Holden himself could seem like a phony because he judges other people for being phony, yet lies all the time.  Because the story is told from the first person, the reader can get inside Holden's head and see the depth in his character.  We are able to sympathize with him and understand that he's not superficial.  Why should the other people be any different?  I think this is the point that Salinger was attempting to make.  Using the first person helped her make her point clearer because as the reader, I had the ability to see Holden's thought process and understand not only him, but that there is much more to the people around him than their superficiality.

Using the third person for Love in the Time of Cholera helped the reader see from more than just Florentino's perspective.  Although he was the main character, the third person writing style allowed the reader to understand the other points of view (Fermina, Dr. Urbino, etc.) and know more than just what one character knew.  I think that each writing style was important to the different stories:  each of them would have been much different if they had been written from a different perspective.

Compare/Contrast Post #4 Morals

In this last post, I would like to talk about the morals of each story. I think that Marquez and Salinger are both trying to send very different messages to their readers. Love in the Time of Cholera definitely has a underlying moral that is important to understand. 

As I read Marquez’ book, I wondered what he might be trying to show us. Although one message is seen throughout the whole book, love, I think that Marquez was also trying to show us another important moral. I think that he was trying to show his readers that life is too short to suffer for only one cause. He is always showing us that the characters in the book were very self conscious and they worried about their age. They would always compare their aging to different characters. Aging will come for everyone no matter what, so the characters are wasting their time trying to compare their looks. I believe that Marquez wants us to be less fearful of aging so that we can enjoy the moment that we have now.

In Catcher in the Rye, Salinger’s message to us is very interesting. One of his underlying morals is to not be hypocritical. I think that Salinger is indiscreetly trying to tell us to look at ourselves and check to see if we are being hypocritical.  He does this by showing us how Holden hates certain things in other people like phoniness, yet Holden himself is a “phony.” Holden also seems to hate movies and the movie industry, but he still watches movies and plays often. I also think that Salinger is trying to show us that we should not look for everyones “phoniness,” but for peoples good nature and kindness. I learned, from Catcher in the Rye, that it is easy to be a hypocrite and not know that you are doing it.

Compare/Contrast #3: Author's Perspective LITTOC

I found what you had to say about the author's writing styles very interesting.  I do have agree with you:  I enjoyed The Catcher in the Rye much more.  Although I do love to read a beautifully written book, often with a poetic writing style, I didn't like the writing style in this book either.  I thought it was confusing and over done.  Like you said, Marquez introduced subjects or thoughts that didn't really tie in with the rest of the book.  I thought he left a lot of lose ends.  For example, he spent 20+ pages on Jeremiah de Saint-Amour, who never really comes up again in the book.

When analyzing a book, I always find it interesting to discuss the author's point of view, or what message they were trying to send to the reader.  In some ways, I think the messages were similar; in some ways very different.
I think one of Marquez's messages was about love.  I'm guessing he wholeheartedly believed in true love and believed in the power and importance of love in one's life.  I'm making these guesses based on the fact that he wrote a beautiful love story about two individuals who have such a deep connection that they are meant to be together, even if it means they are old when it's finally possible.  He never puts either of them in a bad light:  to the reader, they are heroes in way.  To me, I find this slightly disturbing.  I disagree with his message.  I think that love is powerful and valuable, but Marquez makes it seem like it's a beautiful thing to watch your life pass right in front of your eyes as you wait for someone.  It's not like Florentino was waiting two or three years wither.  Half a century!  And he continued to wait even after she got married!!!!
Even though Marquez's message seemed to be more about the power of true love, what I got out of it was slightly different, because I disagree with him:  don't waste your life waiting for someone.  Florentino did a lot of wandering around, filling up the years as he waited for Fermina.  In some ways, I think the message J.D. Salinger was trying to send is similar to this one.  One message that I got from The Catcher in the Rye was to not life my life like Holden:  don't waste your life.  Holden was very misguided.  Although he didn't have any motivation, I think Florentino's motivation in life was no good either.

This post is getting a little lengthy, so I'll discuss more about J.D. Salinger in my next book.  Kai, what did you get out of Love in the Time of Cholera.  Although it is difficult, what messages do you think the author was trying to send to the reader?

Compare/Contrast Post #3 Relationships

One thing that I noticed that was a common theme in both books was relationships. It is obvious that “Love in the Time of Cholera” is about relationships, but I believe that this theme is also in “Catcher in the Rye.” As Holden goes through this transition in his life he finds himself wanting to love someone, just like Florentino Ariza. 

Holden keeps searching for a partner during his loneliness and depression. In just one week he tried to enjoy himself with over nine women. In “Catcher in the Rye” this theme is more about growing into real relationships with others than just finding women. Holden wants to have a relationship with a girl named Jane, but he is too nervous and inexperienced to even call her. This inexperience is what causes Holden to try to have a relationship with someone, even a Prostitute.

In Love in the Time of Cholera, Florentino is not trying to get women because he is inexperienced, but because he was rejected by the one whom he really loved. Florentino had many relationships throughout the book, but he always wanted to be with Fermina. The theme in this book was more about making up a relationship that he could have had. 

In both books the main characters think about relationships a lot and they concentrate on the sexual side of that. While Florentino has had experience, Holden is trying to understand it by asking elders and friends that had bragged about having sex. I believe that this is one of few major themes that both of the books share along with, loneliness.

Compare/Contrast #2 Writing style

In this post I would like to discuss the differences in the writing style between the two authors. I would also like to explain why I personally like one more than the other. I believe that “Catcher in the Rye” was a better book than “Love in the Time of Cholera” to read overall.

“Love in the Time of Cholera” was written in third person by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. When I first started reading this book, I found it very confusing. I was hesitant to read it because I hardly understood what was happening. It was very oddly worded throughout the first quarter of the book and this is one of the main things that made this book less fun to read. For example the first sentence says, “It was inevitable: the scent of bitter almonds always reminded him of unrequited love.” It does not really make sense and it is never explained why almonds make him think of love later on in the book. One thing that made this book on more level of confusing was the way that Marquez introduced characters. He would describe how the looked but they weren’t given roles in the story.

In contrast “Catcher in the Rye” was written in first person by J.D. Salinger. I think that this book was much better to read and enjoy because of the way that Salinger wrote it. Unlike Marquez, Salinger gave each character a role in the book without describing in too much detail, how they appeared. Salinger also wrote in a more simplistic way, without using analogies. It was easy to understand and it was much more enjoyable to read. I think that Salinger really gave an in-depth story about Holden’s life even though the book was set in about one week. In contrast, Marquez gave much detail for the years and years that the book was set in.

Compare/Contrast #2: Loneliness

In my last post I discussed the differences between the two protagonists in the two books.  Although Florentino and Holden are obviously very different people, they had similarities as well.  For example, even though Florentino was very driven and Holden lacked motivation, they both struggled throughout the book.  One of the things that both characters struggled with was loneliness:  loneliness was a theme in both books.
Near the beginning of Love in the Time of Cholera, Fermina was "taken away" from Florentino because her father didn't approve of their relationship.  Florentino become lonely without his love, eating roses and drinking cologne so he may know Fermina's sent.  "He felt alone in the world, and the memory of Fermina Daza, lying in ambush in recent days, dealt him a mortal blow" (p 145).  When Fermina married Dr. Urbino and left Florentino in the dust, he attempted to bury his loneliness by having 622 relationships.  Unfortunately these "liaisons" could not fill the hole in his heart:  "At the height of pleasure he had experienced a revelation that he could not believe, that he even refused to admit, which was that his illusory love for Fermina Daza could be replaced by an earthly passion" (chapter 4).
Holden is also a very lonely character.  Unlike Florentino, he doesn't lose a lover; Holden just doesn't have the ability to connect with people or make relationships. Kai, I think you nailed it in your Catcher in the Rye post about loneliness.  Your examples really illustrate how he really wanted attention.  You also made the connection between his loneliness and his depression; they are very closely linked. Holden felt very lonely at his school because "it's full of phonies" (p 131).  He spends a lot of time wandering, looking for someone to talk to or someone to start a relationship with.  Holden is never very successful and this made him very depressed: "When I finally got down off the radiator and went out to the hat-check room, I was crying and all.  I don't know why, but I was.  I guess it was because I was feeling so damn depressed and lonesome" (p 153).

Kai, what do you think about the authors' writing styles?  Was one more effective than the other?

Compare/Contrast #1 Holden and Florentino

To answer your question Sasha, yes I have found at least one similarity between these characters. As I was reading your first compare and contrast post, I started thinking about the protagonists and Antagonists of each story. I then realized that the antagonists in both stories were the protagonists themselves. 

In Catcher in the Rye, Holden’s antagonists are himself and the “phonies” that he always mentions. Holden is his own enemy because he does not open up to other people and meet with them normally. He is making himself get expelled at multiple schools because of his unwillingness to apply himself in school and invest in the future. He only got into a depressive mode because he chose to feel sorry for himself when he was failing. He held himself in and the only time he felt happy was when he stopped being his own enemy and looked at his sister from a different perspective.

In Comparison, in Love in the Time of Cholera, Florentino was also his own enemy as he had no real enemies. He was defeating himself for not being able to find a stable relationship. Throughout the whole book he was criticizing himself, like holden, for not going on and finding a new partner. In Holden’s case he really wanted to go out with Jane, but he just couldn’t even call her. In Florentino’s case he wanted to be with Fermina so bad that he would not let go and he made himself feel bad for doing so. Florentino also criticized himself for sleeping with so many women because he knew that it was wrong, but he still kept doing it.


Sasha, What similarities can you find between the two characters even thought they are so different?

Compare/Contrast Post #1: Differences Between Protagonists

I disagree with you.  Even though Phoebe is younger, I don't really think that what Holden is doing is any crazier than what Phoebe is doing.  Phoebe doesn't want to go back to school.  Holden wants to go off on his own and being a new life.  He has no plans of finishing school or making much of his life.  I definitely don't believe Holden has the maturity or ability to conduct life on his own.  Because Phoebe is so smart, it is possible that she purposely told Holden that she wanted to not go back to school in order inadvertently help her brother realize how unrealistic he was being and to convince him to stay home.


The Catcher in the Rye and Love in the Time of Cholera are very different books. For me, the differences in the novels’ protagonists really stood out.
Throughout the story, Florentino was always very focused on his goal: make Fermina his wife/lover. He went after her with everything he had. He serenaded her on the violin, he wrote her one love letter after another, he got a job and worked so he could be worthy of her, and he waited fifty years to be with her. "Fermina," Florentino said, "I have waited for this opportunity for more than half a century, to repeat to you once again my vow of eternal fidelity and everlasting love." (p 50). Even though he wasn’t the manliest of men, Florentino refused to back down even when he was threatened by Fermina’s father, the powerful Lorenzo Daza. “‘Don't force me to shoot you,’” said Lorenzo Daza. “Florentino felt his intestines filling with cold froth. But his voice did not tremble because he felt himself illuminated by the Holy Spirit. ‘Shoot me,’ he said, with his hand on his chest. ‘There is no greater glory than to die for love’” (p 82).

In contrast, Holden didn't really have an objective that he sought after with a fiery passion. In fact, I think his experience was quite opposite. He didn’t care about school, his education, or his future and he’d been expelled from multiple schools. He rejected the world around him as being “phony.” Holden wasn’t able to create relationships due to his judgmental behavior. In the story he left his school and went off on his own, calling up girls at random, getting drunk, and conducting other kinds of questionable behavior. Holden even admitted it himself: “I don’t get hardly anything out of anything. I’m in bad shape. I’m in lousy shape” (p 131).

These two characters are very different: while Florentino has a goal that he pursues the entire book, Holden wanders around searching for something to live for.

Kai:  It is obvious these characters are different.  Do they have any similarities?

CITR Post #4

As the story came to a close, I wandered to myself why the book had so much writing about things that happened in only a few days. I have seen books of equal length that were set in a whole years worth of information, like “When Broken Glass Floats.”

As Sasha has said, I was also confused by the title of the book and why it was titled this way. I found it surprising that J.D. Salinger would name this whole book off of a poem that Holden had said incorrectly. I think that it makes sense because this book is mostly about how Holden is sad and lonely and then Holden talks about a Robert Burns’ Poem. This Poem actually says “If a body meet a Body,” but Holden has always thought that it was “If a body catch a body.” Holden states that the only way he would be happy is if he “Had to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff.” The only thing he wants to be is the “Catcher in the rye.” (173) Although it seemed weird to name a book after something that is only mentioned in one paragraph, I believe that it is a good name because it is the one thing that will make Holden happy. If I could name it differently I would name it, The One to Save, or something similar because it relates to this story of happiness. 

I hope that Holden keeps to his word when he says, “I’m going to apply myself when I go back to school next September.” (213) Although he says this he also says, “How do you know what your going to do until you get there” which implies that he probably won’t apply himself at the new school.

Sasha, I believe that Holden is someone Phoebe looks up too even though she knows he is a bad influence because he is her older brother. He set an example to her by saying that he would be running away, so she wanted to be like her brother and run away with him even thought she loves her parents. It is a more crazy Idea for Phoebe to run away because she is only ten.

CITR #4: The Catcher in the Rye

When I first began reading this book, I had no idea what the title meant or symbolized. The meaning is revealed in the book, and I think it is important to discuss.

Although Holden appears to want to have a role in the adult-world, children and memories of his childhood bring him the most joy.  For the majority of the book, Holden is depressed.  Pretty much the only times in the book when he's happy is when he's thinking about his younger sister Phoebe.  For example, at the very end of the book, Holden is enjoying time with Phoebe at the zoo.  He watches her on the carousel and feels truly happy for the first time in the book "I felt so damn happy if you want to know the truth....It was just that she [Phoebe] looked so damn nice, the way she kept going around and around, in her blue coat and all" (p 213).  Holden enjoys his time with Phoebe because he is able to forget the stresses and expectations of the adult world, indulging himself into a care-free one.

It becomes evident as the story develops that Holden's childhood was (and still is) very important to him.  I think he associates children with innocence.  Towards the end of the book, Holden expresses his desire to help children keep their innocence and care-free lives for as long as possible.  When Holden goes to Phoebe's   school, he notices that somebody had written "F*** you" on the wall.  "It drove me damn near crazy....I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it" (p 201).  Holden then proceeds to rub it off the wall.  This is one example of Holden making an effort to help children keep their innocence.  

This is where the title of the book comes in.  Holden thought the old poem by Robert Burns went "if a body catch a body comin' through the rye.  (Really it's "if a body meet a body comin' through the rye," referring more to a sexual encounter).  Holden envisions little kids playing some game in a big field of rye.  "Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around—nobody big, I mean—except me"  (p 173).  He imagines standing on the edge of a great cliff and catching children before they fall off.  "That's all I'd do all day.  I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all.  I know it's crazy but that's really the only thing I'd like to be" (p 173).    By catching the children before they fall off the cliff, Holden is referring to catching the children before they lose their innocence and are exposed to the real adult world.  

Kai:  near the end, Holden tells Phoebe he's going away to live on a ranch, and she says she's going to go with him.  When she says she's not going back to school, he tells her to "cut out the crazy stuff" (p 208).  Is it really any more crazy for Phoebe to want to leave than it is for Holden?

CITR post #3 Holden's Depression

It has become apparent to me that holden is very desperate to feel some sort of happiness from any source. He goes to the park to find his sister because he knows that she would make him happier. After not finding Phoebe, he continues to search for more happiness by going on a date with Sally, even though he doesn’t really like her as much as Jane. He likes the way she looks but he doesn’t really think that he will find happiness with her. He ends the date by calling her a “Royal pain in the ass” and leaving without her.

After reading this section, I think that Holden’s health is starting to get worse and worse. As his depression worsens so does his bad habits. He continues to smoke cigarettes more often than he did ever before. He also starts drinking alcohol more and more, to the point of being drunk. Every time he goes out, he seems to be drinking or smoking. This also relates to his happiness because he is probably smoking and drinking to get rid of the lonely feeling and not deal with the pain of depression. Holden even goes to the pond with his hair frozen while he worries about pneumonia. I hope that he finds good health when he finally does find happiness.

Sasha, I think that Holden dislikes the actors in movies because he believes that they are full of themselves. He doesn’t like their huge egos and cockiness about how great they are. He also doesn’t like being put into a different class of people like he has been before. I find it interesting that Holden hates movies and plays, but he himself goes to them a lot. This also supports Holden being hypocritical.

CITR #3: Conflicting Personality

As the book progresses, it becomes obvious that Holden has a very conflicting personality. Part of Holden wants to have relationships with people (especially on a sexual level), but as I discussed before, he is very judgmental and rejects the world as phony, retreating into childishness and immaturity.
Holden tries many times to have relationships with people, many of which he tries to take a more adult-like role in. For example, Holden really wants to have a sexual relationship. Holden begins by trying to lose his virginity to a prostitute (and fails). He finds girls very attractive and often thinks about calling one of them up (Jane, Sally, etc.). At one point, he does call Sally up and arranges a date with her. Holden tries to take on a more adult-like role when suggests that he and Sally "drive up to Massachusetts or Vermont,...stay in these cabins until the dough runs out," and when the dough runs out, "get a job....Later on, we could get married or something" (p 132). Holden's relationship with Sally doesn't work out because he's not able to connect with her. He gets fed up with his life because he is surrounded by phonies and wants a change of pace. Sally is completely unable to understand where Holden is coming from. Holden proceeds to call her a "royal pain in the ass" (p 133).
Holden also arranges a meeting with Luce, an old peer at Whooton School, and now a college student. Holden attempts to initiate a relationship with Luce and at the same time get information about girls and sex (as Luce is very "experienced"). Holden is not able to connect with Luce either; he bombards him with immature questions and internally believes Luce is a phony.
One interaction (with other people) that goes pretty well is when Holden meets the nuns. He is able to converse with them. They like him and he likes them. Although his reason for liking them may be based on judgments (he thinks they aren't phonies because they "never went anywhere swanky for lunch" (p 114), he is able to interact with people in the real world, which is an improvement.

I think it is interesting that Holden thinks the adult world is phony, yet tries so hard to be apart of it by not only trying to create adult relationships but by pretending his is much older than he actually is and by conducting adult-like activities (drinking, smoking, etc.).


Kai, on a slightly different note, here is my question: Holden often expresses the fact that he hates moves and plays and especially dislikes actors. Why does he dislike actors so much?

CITR Post #2 Loneliness

As the story progresses through Holden’s adventure in New York, I found that Holden was a very lonely person. When he arrived in New York, he tried to set up a date with a girl that he had never met in the middle of the night. This shows that Holden is desperate for some attention and self-worth. Holden continues to go to the nightclub in the hotel where he tries to get attention from some older women. After returning from another night club Holden is so lonely that he even accepts an offer of a prostitute from the elevator operator. These examples show just how lonely Holden is. Being so lonely Holden feels depressed and thinks that most of the things that people are saying to him are also depressing. 

Although Holden is being mean to others to relieve the depression that he is feeling, he is really a kind man behind the façade he is showing. In this section Holden is reminiscing memories of his fatally ill brother and Jane who was a good friend. He is feeling very guilty for the things he did to Allie, his brother, who had recently died. He felt guilty for small things like excluding him from a game that Holden played. Another example that shows Holden’s kindness is when he held and comforted Jane after her father had asked her for cigarettes.

Sasha, I predict that Holden will be depressed for a long time as he returns to his mad parents, but that near the end of the book he will find happiness. It might become worse when he returns home because his parents will be shameful and he will still be lonely. I hope that Holden realizes his self worth because he could become so depressed that he might be suicidal.

CITR #2: Alienation as a Coping Mechanism

It is obvious that Holden is a very troubled person. He has flunked out of school, shows absolutely no interest in his future, and doesn't seem to be able to connect with people. He is continually criticizing others for being phony while he himself is a compulsive liar.

Holden is an unhappy person. In addition to labeling people as phonies, he often describes himself, things and other people as depressing. For example, when he gets his "crumby" room at the hotel in New York, he didn't care much because he was "too depressed to care whether I had a good view or not" (p 61). He then describes the bellboy depressing because he is old and bald. Holden describes himself as depressed more and more often as the book progresses. For example, while in a club in New York City, Holden finds the conversations around him to be depressing and phony. Later, Holden becomes depressed while hanging out with the ladies in the lounge of the hotel because they are obsessed with movie stars. Holden also becomes depressed when the prostitute comes into his hotel room.

I think that Holden is probably scared. He doesn't know who he is, what he's doing, or he is going to become. He doesn't really seem to have any balance in his life. He doesn't seem to have any hobbies anything he is particularly skilled at. I'm guessing that he judges people because by pointing out other people's weaknesses (or their perceived weaknesses), he makes himself feel better about who he is. Although he may have nothing going for him, he makes himself feel better by bringing other people down. When he creates these quick judgments of people, labeling them "phony," he is actually demonstrating to the reader that his own perceptions of others are superficial. Obviously this is not sustainable behavior and I think it is also contributing to his depression.

Kai, what do you predict will happen with Holden's depression throughout the book? Is he just going through a phase? Will it become worse? Will he have some turning point/moment of realization in which he comes to understand his self-worth?

CITR Post #1 Spontaneous

After Reading only one page of this book I could tell that I was going to like it much more than Love in the Time of Cholera because it was much less confusing. Throughout this section of the book I noticed that Holden, the main character, often made sudden snap decisions to do something that he wanted. While at the hotel in New York, Holden spontaneously calls a girl named Faith in to set up a date with her, but then after she says that she couldn’t that night he decides that he doesn’t want to have a date with her. I think that this spontaneous decision making is one of the attitudes that got Holden expelled from Pencey. 

Holden also seams to think too much about other people during conversations instead of focusing on the conversation itself. He is basically being extremely judgmental while others are trying to have a conversation. For example when Holden went to visit his teacher, Mr. Spencer, he was focusing on the fact that the room smelled and that the bed was as hard as rock. He even focused on Mr. Spencer’s head nodding rather than the important life lecture that he was being given. I think that this attitude also contributed to the fact that Holden got expelled from Pencey. I believe this because Holden was probably not focusing on the teachers’ lectures and that caused him to fail most of his classes.

Sasha, I think that Holden is calling everyone a phony because he is most of the time correct. I think that a principle who talks to nice looking parents, but not to odd looking parents is a “phony.” Although most of the people he calls phony probably are phony, I agree with you when you say that he is being Hippocratic because he lies and acts “phony” around others too.

Catcher in the Rye Post #1: "Phoniness"

I think that one of the themes in this book, The Catcher in the Rye, is the phoniness of people in Holden's world.  Right off the bat I could tell that Holden is a judgmental person.  He seems to believe that all adults are phonies.  He busies himself with identifying the superficiality and the hypocrisy within other people.  For example, Holden stated that he liked the headmaster's daughter because she probably knew " what a phony slob he [her father] was" (p 3).  Another occasion in which he uses the word "phony" is when he is with Old Spencer.  Spencer is talking about how he met with Holden's parents.  He calls them "grand people."  In tern, Holden thinks "Grand.  There's a word I really hate.  It's a phony.  I could puke every time I hear it" (p 9). 

Not only does Holden think most people are phonies, but he believes that due to their phoniness, they don't have the ability to understand him or recognize the phoniness in themselves or others.  For example, when Old Spencer asks Holden why he "had some difficulty" at one of his previous schools, Elkton Hills, Holden avoids answering by saying "it's pretty complicated."  Holden confesses (in his thoughts) that "one of the big reasons I left Elkton Hills was because I was surrounded by phonies" (p 13).  Holden doesn't explain this to Old Spencer because he doesn't believe he will understand.  

Although Holden is excellent at identifying other people's phoniness, he overlooks his own.  Holden himself is compulsive liar.  For example, on the way to New York, he meets a woman (who happens to be the mother of one of he school mates) and proceeds to tell her lie after lie from how his son is the school hot-shot, to how he is going to have an operation on his back.  I think Holden would like the reader to believe that he is the only "real," down-to-earth person in a world of phonies, but in fact, this is far from the truth.  

Kai, why do you think Holden believes everyone is a phony?  Is he just pessimistic?  Or do you think it is a defense mechanism?

LITTOC #4: Afraid of Becoming Old

I think Fermina wanted Dr. Urbino to come back to her because their relationship wasn't really built around love.  They had grown to care for each other and take care of each other, but love wasn't really part of their relationship.  When he cheated on her, Dr. Urbino didn't hurt her feelings of love, but he broke her trust.  I think trust is really what they had in their marriage.  Even though he had broken it, she knew he still cared about her and she still cared about him.


I agree:  aging is a very important theme in this book.  I want to add a few more comments about this theme that really stood out to me.

In your first post, you mentioned how Jeremiah de Saint-Amour committed suicide because he was afraid of becoming old.  Well, he had something in common with many characters in this book, predominately Florentino.  Florentino was also afraid of dying.  At first, Florentino didn't pay any attention to the fact that he was aging.  He was waiting around for Dr. Urbino to die so he could get another chance with Fermina "as if time would not pass for him but only for others" (p 218).  With a shock, he realized he had been waiting around for more than thirty years and he was only getting older.  He became obsessed with the idea that age would be the one factor that would stand in his way of at last being Fermina's lover.  "He was never as afraid of death as he was of reaching that humiliating age when he would have to be led on a woman's arm.  On that day, and only on that day, he knew he would have to renounce his hope of Fermina Daza" (p 257).  It wasn't death that he was afraid of per say, it was the humiliation and the decrepitness that came along with old age.  As a result, Florentino obsessed over ways to sustain his youth.  He became infatuated with reversing the gradual balding of his head.  He "cut out every advertisement concerning baldness that he found in the newspapers" and after six years had "tried one hundred seventy-two of them" (p 261-262).  
Florentino wasn't the only one afraid old age.  At the end of the book when Fermina and Florentino started to rekindle their old love, Florentino leaned to kiss her on the cheek and she pulled away, saying "I smell like an old woman" (p 329).  In addition, Fermina had lost hearing in one ear and "did not tell anyone, for she was resigned to the fact that its was one of the many irremediable defects of old age" (p 338).  
To kind of answer your question, I didn't like this book very much, but I did think the ending was kind of beautiful.  Although they were both in their seventies and love at their age could be perceived as "disgusting," when they rediscovered their love for one another, they became a little younger and a little more enlivened.  I think that was the message the author, Marquez, was trying to get through to the reader when he described Fermina's transformation at the end:  "Fermina Daza was horrified when she heard the boat's horn with her good ear, but by the second day...she could hear better with both of them.  She discovered that roses were more fragrant than before, that the birds sang at dawn much better than before..." (p 344).  Even in old age, when united, the two felt young in spirit.  

LITTOC Post 4 The Interesting Finish

As I had said in my first post "After reading this section, I think that a big theme is aging and death." This theme really kept up throughout the whole book. During most of the book Florentino, Fermina, Dr. Urbino and many others kept thinking about how much they had aged. They would compare their own aging with that of old lovers after meeting for the first time in a while. Death was what became of Dr. Urbino, Olimpia, América, Jeremiah, Florentino's mother. It is a big theme because people in the book had to deal with the deaths of people that they loved and with facing death in their old age.


Another major concept throughout the whole book is lying. Lying tends to cause trouble in peoples lives and especially when it is made public. Lying did cause trouble for Fermina when the local newspaper created gossip about a secret love affair between Dr. Urbino Daza, Fermina's son, and Lucretia. Lucretia retreated from the public after it was published and Fermina took that as a guilty move which caused emotional feelings for her. Florentino even feels that he should lie to Fermina about his virginity before he makes love to her.


All in all this book was confusing but good. The beginning was the most confusing because of the way it was written and how the characters were introduced. Then the book got gradually easier to understand even thought the plot was getting larger. As Gabriel Márquez wound us through the lives of Florentino and Fermina, I was hoping for a dramatic ending, but expecting a subtle one. What I got was a little of both. The part about Fermina and Florentino loving each other again was expected, but what was surprising was that they were going to be stuck on a boat in a river because of their own "brilliant thinking."


What about you Sasha? what do you think of the book and what were you expecting for the ending?

LITTOC post 3. Abundant Affairs

          As the story progressed I started to realize that a major theme in this book is finding self-worth. When I say this I am mainly speaking about Florentino because he felt that he needed to matter in the world after being rejected by Fermina. He started seeing women after realizing that he would not be able to have Fermina until Dr. Urbino was dead. His way of having self-worth was to be with as many women as possible. Florentino had over 10 lovers, that I could count, from the time that he was rejected until Dr. Urbino died. He even had a lover who was just 14 and "Entrusted by her family to Florentino Ariza as her guardian and recognized blood relative."
          Another theme that comes from Florentino's lovers is betrayal. Many of the women that he had relationships with were married, so they were having affairs. One of the most extreme cases of betrayal was when florentino was trying to have an affair with Olimpia Zuleta who was newly married. When Florentino wrote something (inappropriate) on Olimpia's stomach and her husband saw it, her husband immediately killed her. Another betrayal that happened in this section was when Dr. Urbino was having an affair with Barbara Lynch. Fermina was so furious with Urbino that she left to Hidlebranda's ranch with her kids.

         Why do you think that Fermina came back to Dr. Urbino after he begged her to come back? Why would she do that if she knew that he had had and affair during their relationship?

LITTOC #3: Giving up Everything for Love

When you described Dr. Urbino and how much time and effort he dedicated to helping the community deal with cholera, you said was "a very giving man."  He had a high economic status, a very impressive reputation, and was known throughout the community.  Because he had so much authority, I was surprised when Fermina called him a "hopeless weakling...made strong by the weight of his family names" (p 207).  While he was professional and authoritative in all other areas of his life, when it came to his mother, Dr. Urbino would not stand up to her on his wife's behalf.  If I were Fermina I would be frustrated and probably think of him as a weakling as well. 

Similarly to theme I discussed in my previous post about how love can result in pain and making sacrifices for love, Florentino continued to make sacrifices and chase after Fermina.  At the beginning of chapter 4, Florentino decided he was somehow going to win Fermina.  "He did not even stop to think about the obstacle of her being married" (p 165).  It seems to me that everything Florentino did with his life was somehow the result of his feelings for Fermina.  He decided to get a job and make money so he could gain as much status and wealth as Dr. Urbino.  Florentino's employer, his uncle, never suspected "his nephew's courage did not come from the need to survive or from a brute indifference inherited from his father, but from a driving need for love" ( p 167).  He then had 622 relationships to help him drive away he thoughts of Fermina and settle for the pleasures of love making.  To answer your question Kai, I actually think Florentino is kind of pathetic and a hopeless romantic.  Although she may have not been in love with her husband, Fermina was married.  At that point, Florentino should have given up and moved on.  He should have stopped living for someone other than himself.  Near the end of chapter 14, Fermina pities Florentino and declares what she thinks of him:  "It is as if he were not a person but only a shadow" (p 204).  He spent half a century of his life wasted while he waited for her, only to be rejected once again. 

While Florentino is wallowing in misery as he waits for Dr. Urbino to die, what is happening to Fermina at this point in the book?  Although the community sees Fermina and her husband as "the happiest couple," both  privately show signs that they aren't very happy in their marriage.  If Fermina didn't really love Dr. Urbino, why did she choose him over Florentino?

LITTOC post 2

          This section really starts to explain why the author named the book, "Love in the Time of Cholera." We learn that a cholera epidemic has killed many people in Dr. Urbino's city including his own father. After Dr. Urbino's father dies he decides to learn everything there is to know about cholera and try to help. Based on the fact that Dr. Urbino dedicated all of his time to helping his community with the cholera epidemic, you could say that he was a very giving man. Another clue that supports why the author titled the book "Love in the Time of Cholera" was that Dr.  Urbino actually met his future wife when he was testing her for cholera.

          Sasha, that is a very good question. There were many people who had to give up things for the sake of love, including Dr. Urbino. One example of people sacrificing things for love is when Florentino almost lost his job and got very sick because he was so obsessed with Fermina. Another good example is Dr. Urbino who messes some things up just for the sake of love. In chapter three Dr. Urbino's "Mother  asked him in alarm where in the world he had been, for they had looked everywhere  for  him so that he could attend Gernal Ignacio María's [funeral], who had been struck down that afternoon by a cerebral hemorrage." This shows how Dr. Urbino affected others negatively, meaning he let someone who was sick, die by spending too much time with Fermina.

       Although Florentino felt content without Fermina after his experiences on the boat and when he arrived in the city, he still was obsessed with Fermina 50 years later. Florentino confuses me because he keeps changing his mind about his love for Fermina. Sasha how do you feel about Florentino and his strange ways of making himself content?

LITTOC #2: Love Causing Pain/"Sickness"

One of the main themes that I'm predicting will appear throughout the book is the pain that can result from love. 
One example of when this theme is expressed is in Florentino's love-sickness for Fermina.  When he first falls in love with her, he tries to see her as often as he can.  He spends all his time thinking about her and writing her pages and pages of letters.  After he gives her the first letter, he becomes anxious as he waits for her answer.  Being away from her makes him lovesick.  The possibility that she may reject makes him lovesick.  He actually drinks cologne and eats roses because they remind him of Fermina.  Florentino becomes sick and his mother actually thinks (at first) that he has cholera because his symptoms are actually those of a sick person.  To Fermino, his need for Fermina "is a matter of life and death" (chapter 2).  When he is away from her or can't have her, he becomes depressed and even sick.
A second example of love causing pain is when Florentino gets arrested when he is accused of being a spy and sending messages through his violin playing (even though he is just serenading Fermina).  As a result, he spends three nights in jail and was lucky to not get executed.  At the end of his jail sentence is actually feels somewhat like a martyr because he suffered love.

So far in this book, multiple people have made sacrifices in the name of love.  Kai, who were some of those people and what did they sacrifice?  Did it bring pain to them or the people around them? (Hint: Fermina's Aunt, Fermino, etc.)

Love in the Time of Cholera #1: Fermina's Reaction to Florentino's Declaration of Love

Kai, I was wondering the exact same thing and I would love to write an entire post to answer your question because it's such a great one.

At first, I thought Florentino was creepy and stalker when he confessed his everlasting love for Fermina right after her husband had died.  He hadn't had contact with her for half a century, and tracking her down and spontaneously announcing his love for her seemed quite abrupt to me.  I thought Fermina's reaction was especially interesting.  She told him to "get out of here" and "don't show your face again for the years that are left to you" (p 50).  If she had no interest in him whatsoever, then why would he bother admitting his love??  After reading this I decided there was probably much more to this story.

Reading on, the love story of Florentino and Fermina revealed itself.  When Fermina's father found out, he was completely appalled.  He was so completely opposed to their getting married that he took Fermina off on a "demented" trip for a year and a half (p 83).  For Mr. Daza, the purpose of the trip was to ensure Fermina would forget about Florentino completely.  After Mr. Daza's wife had died, he had made it his life's goal to "turn his daughter into a great lady" (p 81).  Florentino was getting in the way of that dream.  After her father had rejected Florentino, Fermina had spent much of her life pressured to forget Florentino.  It was her father's obsession and I'm guessing that after a while, Fermina accepted it as well. 

Although Fermina may have loved Florentino, she left him behind and married another man.  She became the woman her father wanted her to be.  I think it was inconsiderate for Florentino to come barging in on her life, trying to bring back the old life that had been buried in a half century of a new one.  Even if Fermina still loved Florentino and wanted to dig up that old life, I'm sure her reaction was a display of her hesitance due to the new life she had created for herself.  I definitely would have hesitant as well.  What about you, Kai?  Do you think it was "right" of Florentino to come barging in on Fermina's life?

LITTOC post 1

When I first started reading this book it was extremely confusing and hard to follow. I had only a faint idea of what was happening. After reading further it was easier to understand what was happening, but nothing was explained with a deeper background, which probably means that this book will be answering "the background" questions later on.

After reading this section, I think that a big theme is aging and death. The very beginning of this book starts with the death of Dr. Urbino's friend, Jeremiah de Saint-Amour, who had committed suicide. He had supposably done that because he was afraid of getting really old or aging. Another event that has to do with death is when Dr. Urbino had to have all of his wife's animals killed because a dog had infected many of them with rabies. The last thing that was extremely surprising was that Dr. Urbino himself died when trying to get his parrot. All I could think of at that point was, who kills off the main character in the beginning of the book? I realized that Dr. Urbino is probably not the main character even though he was in the first chapter.

After realizing that Dr. Urbino was not the main character I figured that Florentino Ariza was the main character because of how extensive the author explained his background. Florentino seems to be an obsessive man because he stalked Fermina Daza when he was young and after he had an affair with her, he thought about her everyday for over fifty years. Thats pretty creepy if you ask me. He was so in love that his godfather said that he had cholera, but he only had love sickness and he almost lost his job because of his love.

Why do you think that Fermina just decides that her love for Florentino is an illusion?

Kai Simpson, Sasha Friedrich
Books:

• Love in the Time of Cholera by: Gabriel Garcia Marquez
• Catcher in the Rye by: J.D. Salinger

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